This is it -- our piece of the rock, where we set the agenda and lay the smack down. Or (more likely) exchange ideas civilly, listen intently, and learn from each other and from our visitors. Fantastiko offers political fireworks, news that flies under the radar, and a safe place for constructive debate.
It looks like we're headed for a recount in Ohio. Check out the Bloggermann by Keith Olbermann, who has been covering the post-election activities consistently for weeks. His November 22nd post has a detailed description of the recount plans in Ohio.
posted by The Decider @ 7:03 PM
This is it -- our piece of the rock, where we set the agenda and lay the smack down. Or (more likely) exchange ideas civilly, listen intently, and learn from each other and from our visitors. Fantastiko offers political fireworks, news that flies under the radar, and a safe place for constructive debate.
Although he encourages debate and, in general, the open expression of ideas, he is THE KNOWER AND DECIDER OF ALL THINGS. The Decider is generous and has little interest in keeping complete world knowledge to himself; therefore, you will find answers to life's puzzling puzzles here. He lives comfortably in Columbia, Maryland with his wife, child, labrador retriever, and many books of knowledge.
8 Comments:
There should be a re-vote, more than a recount... Stating the obvious, it seems to me that the recount might benefit both parties equally. Democrats need to close this chapter with a sense of justice and fairness. A recount won't change the outcome but it will help bring back a sense of confidence in the system that was severely damaged after these two last presidential elections. Republicans might benefit too. Reassured that this was a fair win might help them stop covering their insecurity about the outcome by telling us to shut up, accept the result, and move on. With nearly no exception, I see more anger on their side when the issue is brought up than we (dems) ever had, having lost just about everything. It's a good thing. I wish the media reported this with the same intensity with which is keeping us posted about a similar -but with a reverse outcome- situation in Ukraine, where the anti-US party apparently won. I honestly read and heard more about the accusations of fraud there than I did about Ohio itself. I couldn't care less about who won or might win, as it's clearly beyond the scope of things I have any control about, but I wonder how long will it be until the guy is declared an insurgent. I digress...Honestly, I think it would go a long way into restoring our credibility here and abroad if we carry our own process until its rightful end, and all of us, dems and reps, should support it without questioning its validity or meaning. It just has to be done, no matter who casts any doubts on the results.
The GB
In Oberlin OH we have a committee working on auditing the election result in Ohio. It is interesting and important to trace through the votes and see which ones get counted. This way, we can understand what really happened Nov. 2, compared with the exit polls, and get experience for next time.
We should see the precinct results in a few days.
We suspect that voter suppression, intimidation, and fraudulent counting will be used increasingly in the future. They seem to be working.
-Kirk
In the 1990’s, there were many people who felt that there was no real difference between the presidential candidates. There was a general apathy and low voter turnout. This year, things were different. Everyone who followed the election closely, except perhaps Ralph Nader, believed that there was a huge difference between Bush and Kerry.
People were much more passionate about their candidates than anytime in the last 20 years. Voters turned out in record numbers. Winners rejoiced. Losers grieved.
Grieving is a well understood four-step process: shock, denial, anger, and acceptance. When I read the first few threads of the Fantastiko blog, I was convinced that the patient was stuck in the anger phase. Now, I am deeply concerned that the patient is regressing back into denial. Intervention may be in order.
Alex, take care of Nan. Get him a good meal, and nice glass of wine, perhaps a cigar. Tell him a few jokes. Don’t let him wallow in despair.
Take two shots of a nice single malt and call me in the morning.
Dr. Chris
Dr. Chris,
Thanks for the diagnosis. I’ve been told several times that there’s something seriously wrong with me. I'm starting to believe it.
To be serious for a moment, if you had spoken to anyone close to me, you’d know that anger was never part of the process for me. Surprisingly, I accepted the inevitability of a second term the minute I heard of Kerry’s concession.
That said there is more to evaluating an election than just grieving and the elements you’ve described. Let me be clear about this: many Republicans do not understand that many of us are not angry or hoping to evaluate the election for the purpose of changing the outcome of the election. We want to point to the imperfections in the process, review them, hold people accountable and fix them. Period. It’s that simple.
Now, if the possible outcome of that process makes YOU nervous, I’m sorry. Tough. I suspect this is why many Bush supporters want to turn a blind eye to serious problems in our process that we know are unjustified and, in some areas, ubiquitous.
Why is it that many people think evaluating government performance in other areas is important—why do you think we have a GAO?—but evaluating our elections is frivolous and not worthy of our time and money? How is this different than evaluating our health care system or the welfare state?
If anyone is stuck in a civic developmental stage, it is those in denial who naïvely continue to believe that our system is flawless or that our flaws are acceptable. Maybe the merits of evaluating a flawed process should be the center of our debate. If so, let’s do it. I’ll win.
You’re right; we had a close election with a huge increase in public interest. But this is not why we want examination. The fact that this is a close election may be convenient for some of the challengers, but to charge that some of us are intent on somehow stealing an election is insulting; we simply care about doing things right. Don’t you?
I can’t say I’d be advocating challenges if Kerry had won and roles were reversed, but I’d depend on you caring enough about the process to speak up and say we’re not perfect.
Nan with a cigar? I-don't-think-so...
Dr Chris, Nan ,fellow bloggers: you really think that this debate is a consequence of the election results? Chronologically, it is. But that's as far as it goes, I think. Like Nan, I 'got over it' even before I went to sleep that night, Nov.2. What came after was something else, and maybe more disturbing than the result of the election itself. We all agree that the controversy was a given. The 2000 election left an incredibly bad taste in the minds of half of this country. If anything, I think it is AMAZING how easily things went down this time, how little controversy and how little media attention was paid to the aftermath. What matters, and I agree with Nan on this, as this is a sign of civic health, not anger or denial, is that the system showed it flaws and that there is concern about that. In this sense, stupid as it may sound, I would EXPECT the SAME reaction from republicans TODAY regarding irregularities and issues of that sort. It's everybody's responsibility, it is our system, our future, etc.etc. In an ideal system, we would be equally concerned, equally worried that the system might fail again in the future, to each party's disadvantage. I don't think either that we see ghosts were there aren't any. Things happened in 2000, things happened in 2004, and now we all have all the right in the world to believe (in particular those that came of age in the last few years) that the system is in need of repair.
The last phase of the process, acceptance, will not come by that easily. The same way that some republicans did everything in their power to bring Clinton down, most democrats will never accept Bush, no matter what. We might accept the outcome of the election, but from there to say that we accept its consequences...no, it's not going to happen. We learned from some republicans that that is not an easy thing to do. We feel their pain, 1993-2000 must have been hell, even the memories from that period seem to be painful even today. Now it's our hell. That's ok, that's the way it will always be. The important thing is that we make sure that we keep the mechanism honest enough, the system clean enough, so that this game continues forever, which is what I think Nan was talking about.
For those under 24, which just voted twice, this is a tough thing to believe. Can't blame them. I'm 28 (ok, 50), and I still have my doubts.
gUiLLe
Kirk,
Any word on the results from the Oberlin investigations?
We got the precinct results and sent them off to Forensics.
We are working on getting the identities of the 1200 in Lorain County whose provisional ballots were rejected, so we can try to get them counted.
I am helping get witnesses to the recount for the Kerry people.
Kirk
شركة كشف تسربات بالدمام
شركة مكافحة بق الفراش بتبوك
شركة تنظيف مجالس بالدمام
شركة مكافحة سوس الخشب بتبوك
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